INFO-ATARI16 Digest Thu, 2 Nov 89 Volume 89 : Issue 599 Today's Topics: Atrocious Atari dealer (LONG) GNU C and sizeof(int) official tos 1.4 release TT's VME-slots (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 3 Nov 89 00:57:15 GMT From: pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!jlemon@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Jonathan Lemon) Subject: Atrocious Atari dealer (LONG) This article is a flame, intended as a warning to others, specifically those who are considering buying from Microworld. You have been warned. Last December I decided to sell my XT clone and get a Atari. I went to to various stores comparing prices for a Mega 2 system. It was NOT my intention to buy a computer right then - I still had to sell my XT first, but I wanted to know how much they cost, what each store had to offer, etc.. I went to Microworld. (on University Ave, here in Berkeley. They are also known as Zephyr via mail order, hence the national distribution. Zephyr is actually the now defunct T-shirt company next door to them, but I digress.) I talked with the owner of the shop, (I forgot his name - the guy with the hair implants. :-) ) and he seemed to be quite understanding. He even offered to take my XT as part of a trade-in deal for the Mega. I decided not to do that, since I could get more money selling it elsewhere. He was selling the Mega 2 for about $1300, I can't quite recall exactly. He told me that he also sells software for 20% off list price, so I thought that it would be a good place to buy my software packages. A little later I found another business (Computer Spectrum of Burlingame) that was selling the machine for $1099. This was a pretty low price, so I went down there, and got one of the last machines they had in stock. I didn't buy any software because I figured I could get a better deal at Microworld. (After all, I _am_ a poor, starving college student! :-) ) The next day, I went back to Microworld with my fiancee and said that I wanted to buy a word processing package, could he please show us the differences between WordUp and FirstWord+? He showed us WordUp. I asked about FirstWord+, and he grumbled that he didn't have it set-up on his hard drive, he would have to install it. 45 minutes later, after waiting for him to install it between all the phone calls and other customers that he was handling, he has it set up. We take a look at both packages and decide that FirstWord+ would be better for us. (I liked WordUp, but my fiancee liked FirstWord+, so no flames on this, ok?) I was also impressed with the fact that you could import .img files into your document, and asked if I could import Degas pictures also. (I told him that I was also planning to get Degas Elite) He explained that I couldn't do that directly, and then proceeded to explain what degasnap did. He then went ahead and very clumsily attempted to show me the features of Degas Elite, over my protestations that I understood what the various options of the program did. We gathered up the two packages and a modem cable that I needed, and went to the counter to pay. He wrote up the sale, complete with the 20% discount, and then asked me whether I wanted a Mega 2 or a Mega 4. I was startled by his question, since I thought I had told him that I already bought my computer elsewhere. I apologized and told him that I had already aquired a Mega computer elsewhere, at a lower price. He then proceeded to tell me that the 20% discount only applied to people who bought their hardware from his store. (Just how he keeps track of who buys hardware from his store, I don't know) I was tempted to take my business elsewhere right then and there, but the price wasn't that bad, and I _did_ take up his time when he showed me the software. (Side note: I believe in supporting your local dealer - going to a dealer for a demonstration and/or explanation and then purchasing via mail-order is one of the best ways to drive a dealer out of business) He scribbled out a receipt and then wrote out the charge slip. Now, here comes my big mistake. (I learned!) I signed the charge slip and left, without examining the prices too carefully. Once home, I was filing the receipt away when I noticed that the total on the receipt and the total on the charge slip didn't match... Upon closer inspection, I discovered that I couldn't decipher the receipt at all! The next day, I took the receipt back and told him I couldn't read it, could he please write me another copy in slightly more legible handwriting? He looked _real_ uncomfortrable, and it took him 4 tries as he fiddled around with the prices to get them to match the total. Upon examination of what he wrote, I discovered that what I thought was a $147 total was actually a $197 total! (You know - writing a 4 so that it can't be distinguished from a 9. That explains the damned charge slip) I also found out that he charged me a $50 "consulting" fee for his awkward demonstration of the software packages. Grr... was I mad! And there wasn't a damned thing I could do about it, except to _READ_ what the hell I sign in the future. And there is nothing that will coerce me to ever set foot in that store again. But this isn't all... When I got the actual bill from my creditcard company, I found that the bill was higher than the total on my charge slip. Well, this I could take care of, and sent a copy of the receipt and a letter of explanation off to the creditcard company. Why an explanation? Well, it also appears that the name of the business on the charge slip was Zephyr, while the business name on the receipt was MicroWorld. I got the difference credited to my mastercard account, that was the only bright spot in this entire business. Now, before you think that I am just griping about the fact that I was a lousy consumer, and quote "caveat emptor" at me, I am not alone in my complaints. I have had quite a bit of mail from other netters who are equally disgusted with the way MicroWorld does business. (I am equally disgusted with the low-resolution dot-matrix picture of a nude woman that is included with their advertisement on the back of the local user group's magazine) In conclusion, I would strongly advise staying away from this company, as their business practices are questionable, their prices average, and they don't seem to have very many satisfied customers. -- Jonathan ...ucbvax!cory!jlemon or jlemon@cory.Berkeley.EDU ------------------------------ Date: 3 Nov 89 00:12:19 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!mailrus!um-math!hyc@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Howard Chu) Subject: GNU C and sizeof(int) In article <30975@watmath.waterloo.edu> rbutterworth@watmath.waterloo.edu (Ray Butterworth) writes: >This reminds me of something I've been wondering about for a while. >Why does GCC on the ST have 32 bit ints? For compatibility - using the 32 bit int mode, I can take just about any source file off a Sun, Usenet (comp.sources.unix), etc., type "cc" or "make" and have a running executable without ever having to edit a single source file. >Surely 16 is the obvious size considering it has 16 bit memory access. Yep. So obvious, in fact, that every version of ST GCC that's been posted has been sent out with *both* 16 *and* 32 bit libraries. What are you complaining about? > >Has anyone made a 16-bit GCC and library and done a comparison? Look again, if it's not there, whoever gave you your copy has done you and the FSF a disservice. You can also get the latest gcc stuff off of terminator if it's really missing. As an offhand comparison, ARC is about 20% faster with the 16 bit library. Unfortunately, the stdio stuff seems really slow, dunno if that's just my bad luck/bad configuring... -- -=- PrayerMail: Send 100Mbits to holyghost@father.son[127.0.0.1] and You Too can have a Personal Electronic Relationship with God! ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 89 18:51:19 GMT From: att!cbnewsc!kimes@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Kit Kimes) Subject: official tos 1.4 release From article <5115@orca.WV.TEK.COM>, by stank@anvil.WV.TEK.COM (Stan Kalinowski): | In article <1989Oct22.195156.14155@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> nemeth@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Gabe Nemeth) writes: |>What I find annoying is that ROMs that fix bugs in the operating system |>that was promised years ago is costing me $100. Surely Atari could |>afford to foster some loyalty by offering a "nominal" trade in price |>for ROMs. | | C'mon folks, give Atari a break. They're trying to provide support | for their product and all they get are complaints. Trade-in's on ROMs | don't make sense, they don't have any intrinsic value so what's the | point of trading them in? It's not like a used car where the | manufacturer could resell it. Mask programmed ROMs cannot be reused, | so they have no value. Why should Atari take them on trade in? Sure they have value. They can put them in the 520STFM's they are going to dump on the market next year for approx. $300. Does anyone seriously think they will have TOS1.4? Kit Kimes AT&T Bell Labs Naperville, IL ...!att!ihlpe!kimes ------------------------------ Date: 3 Nov 89 01:32:30 GMT From: grapevine!koreth%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@sun.com (Steven Grimm) Subject: TT's VME-slots In article <4699f8e3.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: >Because internal IBM modem cards are cheaper then external modems. Just >price them yourself. So, an internal modem for the TT should be cheaper >then an external modem. As far as resale value goes, a used modem is only >worth 50% of retail at best. And even less as faster modems are introduced. An IBM-PC card bus is not a VME bus. VME cards are much more expensive to make. An internal VME modem card would end up costing over a thousand dollars, I'd guess. And as someone else touched on, you won't have to wait for TT-specific VME cards. VME is a standard that's been around for years, and you can already buy lots of VME products, from D/A converters to memory to high- speed I/O controllers to video cards to multiple serial-port boards to... But they don't come cheap, unfortunately. --- " !" - Marcel Marceau Steven Grimm Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st sgrimm@sun.com ...!sun!sgrimm ------------------------------ Date: 3 Nov 89 01:57:28 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!samsung!aplcen!haven!uvaarpa!hudson!astsun8.astro.Virginia.EDU!gl 8f@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Greg Lindahl) Subject: TT's VME-slots In article <4699f8e3.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: >> >Internal high speed modem?? Nope. >> >> Why internal? Get it on RS232 and then it doesn't have to be VME or TT >> specific. > >Because internal IBM modem cards are cheaper then external modems. Just >price them yourself. I have. The trade-off is that you pay more for the computer in the first place (slots cost money) to maybe save money down the road. By the way, VME slots are a lot more expensive to build than a PC-BUS slot, so I'd be amazed if anyone ever made an internal VME modem card. Why don't you find one and tell us how much it costs? A VME slot isn't like a PC-BUS slot. It's faster and more expensive. You put quite different things in them. > Furthermore, wouldn't it be nice for Atari to sell a truly open > system and let the Marketplace decide what to add to it. They've announced one. Why don't you sit back and see if it materializes? They also have a corporate philosophy that the average user doesn't need a truly open system. If you don't like that philosophy, go found a competing company and quit bitching here. By the way, I'm typing this on a Sun 3/80. It has room for SIMM memory, a SCSI port, and serial ports. It's a little less expandable than the TT/P.... > But the TT Plastic >is just another closed, limited support, game machine to me. Much like the Sun 3/80, eh? Wow, great games. >P.S. Do you know why Atari Corp doesn't just quit pretending to be >a SERIOUS computer vendor and go back to making Game Machines?? Because Atari makes a lot more money selling computers than it does selling game machines. Read their annual report. With a few facts to back up your postings, they might become educational. ------ Greg Lindahl gl8f@virginia.edu I'm not the NRA. ------------------------------ End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #599 ***************************************** =========================================================================